So I have encountered the opposition,...well the supposed opposition, they call themselves "Anti-adoption advocates" or "Adoption reformers". In actuality, they are groups of women who have had they're children taken away from them and parental rights removed. Now that its no longer fun or cute to be a complete fuck up, they have taken on the persona of the victimized and unwitting mother who has had her children taken away by a large horrible machine and then maligned and ostracized by society in a conspiracy to take her kids and give them to greedy infertile couples. Pathetic.
These blogs and forums are run by Bio-moms and read by Bio-moms for the express purpose of being a supportive place where reality and accountability cant interrupt. Each woman is asked to share "her story" in which almost obligatorily the "system" and the "adoptive parents" and then finally the "medical community" are blamed for forcing the woman to hand over her child to a pack of adoption wolves. Pathetic
As I read these posts and blogs, I noticed in the replies that no dissent or even traces of self accountability were visible. None. So I decided to try and give a dissenting opinion. Here's what I received back:
Please review the site beliefs in the sidebar. We are a PRO-OPENNESS site. Your comments make me think you are not aware of this. Right now they are going into moderation since you haven't commented before and I wanted to check in to see if you understand the site mission.
This is censorship of anything other than the "correct" opinion. Its perfectly legal and perfectly fine that they do this but its also why no one takes anything they say or do seriously. Pathetic.
As a man I tend to focus upon my enemies and opposition until I know every single move they make and how they think. On this one though, I just have sadness for them. The smallest sign of reality or honest investigation into "her story" and more than likely theres a child neglect case, drug warrents, or an abuse and abandonment decision handed down from a child welfare court. They know this and that's why dissenting conversation cant be allowed. Sorry ladies. your stuck in the echo chamber forever. Pathetic
They know this. I know this.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You have the cheek to call us 'pathetic' when you have no idea what we have been through, and will continue to go through for the rest of our lives. Not only are you narrow minded, but patronising and condescending too. I'd tell you my story, if I didn't think I'd be wasting my time. Not all mothers are 'fuckups' or drug addicts. Get off your pedestal, do some research and how bout a little bit of empathy in the side?
ReplyDeleteLol. Ok then, perhaps you should go look at all the adoption reform pages by ADOPTEES instead then, since we're the one's it actually gets done to.
ReplyDeleteMy blog at http://www.adoptedintheuk.co.uk would be a useful place to start, since I have links to over 100 adoptee blogs listed down the side.
Come back and talk when you've done a leeeeedle bit more research, there's a good lad.
First I would like to suggest that you do some reading. You could start with some history - The Baby Thief. The Untold Story of Georgia Tann, the Baby Seller Who Corrupted Adoption by Barbara Bisantz Raymond. Then you could read The Girls Who Went Away by Ann Fessler. For millions of us, the stories in Fessler's book are our stories. When you understand that in millions of cases there was no drug abuse, no child abuse or neglect, no decisions made by children's services or courts, then maybe you'll understand that your harsh words thrown at people you know nothing about are sad and pathetic. No one who wishes to see adoption reformed - mothers or adoptees - wishes for children to remain in abusive environments.
ReplyDeleteYou want to know the textbook definition of Pathetic? Go look in the mirror and you will see it. Get way over yourself, arsehole. Please. Such a typical adoptoraptor you are. Pat yourself on the back, oh savior, holier than thou one and why you are at it, why don't you go eff off... JERK.
ReplyDeleteI have QUESTIONS, not comments:
ReplyDelete1. Are you an adoptive father?
2. Are you in Australia?
3. Are you aware of the apology issued by South Australia for forced adoptions? Have you read anything about it?
4. Do you think said apology is warrented? Right or wrong?
5. Why are you so MEAN-spirited?
6. Do you think it makes you more of a "man" to be judgemental, totally lacking in any compassion, and cruel?
7. Or, are you a misogynist?
Mirah
DeleteInteresting way to engage so I'll play.
1. Yes proudly!
2. No, I am aware of the interesting things going on there however. Australia, is actually why I'm interested in fighting adoption reform.
3.4. The forced adoptions fall under more of a racial and apartied context, so, yes I do.
4.Oh come on, I bet you ask that of all the guys. I'm not mean spirited, just correct and it hurts sometimes.
6. No, I'm fine with my "manliness" I'm cruel because bio-moms don't deserve the compassion I harbor for many people.
7. This gets to the root of your conflict doesn't it? It's not that I disagree with you, it's that I'm male. This is ok, I get it. The more I speak at adoption events, the more clear it is to me that men, gay men, straight men are starting to comprise the vast amount of the adoptions. Women in general don't like this and "bio-moms" specifically don't like it with good reason. The fact is, men like me are holding bio-moms accountable and we first do that by closing adoption proceedings and scrubbing identification records. In short, no I don't hate women.
Well unlike the bio-moms, I have to take care of my kids but thanks for engaging in an interesting manner. -PowerDAD
You say you're fighting "adoption reform" - care to explain what reforms you're fighting, since surely not all of the potentials for reform are something you'd be against - are they?
DeleteCare to explain what you're actually against, rather than just picking at our moms (with narey a thought for our dads, I notice - whassup, more scared of men than you are of women or summat)? Or do you - like so many other adoptoraptors - not give a flyin' toss about the voices of the adoptees (the ones all this is done to)?
PowerAdoptiveFather,
ReplyDeleteYou are a piece of work.
I don't care if you are male, female, black, white, plaid...whatever you are...the fact of the matter is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Merely being an adoptive parent does not give you the end all/be all knowledge of adoption.
Sadly, you will never understand...not because you are male..but because you cannot believe that there are other points of view that might be different than your own.
~Christina
Christina,
ReplyDeleteI'm shocked that we aren't fast friends. Pffft
::clap::.......::clap::........::clap::
DeleteGreat comeback. I'm shocked you didn't throw in a
"neener neener neener".
::eyeroll::
The more you write, the more I doubt how factual your story actually is. I can't help but wonder if you have fabricated a story for yourself in order to satisfy some sick, twisted need to make yourself feel better by cruelly attacking others. I think you gain great pleasure in pretending such a vast ignorance about adoption because it somehow helps you feel better about yourself if you can make others think less about themselves. You need another's suffering for your own ego, which is truly a terrifying reality, especially if you truly are raising two children who have suffered the loss adoption brings.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is where I hope, if there is truth in the fact that you are responsible for the care, nurture and loving of two innocent children, you will take a step back and take a critical look at how your anger, your judgement, your outright cruelty toward those who speak out about the loss and grief adoption causes, will wind up hurting your children the most.
If you are truly such a concerned father, than be concerned about your children who, regardless of the reasons why they lost their First Family, are still part of two different families and will always deserve to have that fact respected as well as live in the security of never hearing either family attack the other because by doing so, they are also attacking the innocent children who have no voice, no choice, when it comes to adoption.
<3 Cassie.
DeleteYou are a Perma victim.
DeleteWell said Cassi <3
ReplyDeleteSo, you're against reform because you assume that all the birth parents that have shared their stories were parents deemed unfit by childrens services? That's what you're saying. That every mother who shares a tale was most likely deemed unfit and her children taken from her by some state agency.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot be more wrong.
Every mother's story I've read came from women who made adoption plans while pregnant or were ambushed in the hospital by staff that were lookouts for lawyers, agencies, etc. Women who were not unfit. Women whose only crime was unwed/young and pregnant.
Get your facts straight before you run that mouth of yours.
We want reform in adoption because we want adoptees to have access to information that is rightfully theirs, including their original birth certificates and not the legal forgeries the states issue. We want open adoptions to become legally enforceable and not based on the honor of the couples we trust our children to. We want women to be given facts and legit options so she can make an informed decision. We want reform in adoption plans. No more pre birth matching, no more signing paperwork before birth or hours after birth.
Those of us who have relinquished our children were not considered risks by the state and our children were not removed from our care by the state. We made adoption plans with agencies and lawyers. Some of us were lied to about the laws. Some of us were unaware of just what it would means in the end. To say we were most likely deemed unfit and our rights forcibly removed is false.
We want reform so other mothers and fathers do not get duped in the way we were. We want reform so adoptees can have what is rightfully theirs.
So you'd tell your child that his mother was a piece of shit who got her rights terminated by force?
ReplyDeleteIs that what you assume all adoptions are? Some woman who had her child taken or risks having her child taken?
What do you plan to do when your child wants to seek our their mother, father and possible siblings?
Dear Farter ..... oh sorry, I
ReplyDeletemean Farther ......
I'm adopted, not a dirty, scum fuckwit mother. I would love to go on and on about what a deadshit you are but I don't have the time. I am actually quite busy enjoying my wonderful life away from the dirty scum slut who gave birth to me. This is your economy, of course.
So I'll just say one thing and be on my way. Your poor kids who are stuck with you will hate your guts one day and probably beat the fuck out of you. Pretty sure they hate you now. Trust me, I've been around adoption a lot longer than you have so I know a lot more about it than you do. They aren't your kids. You are sterile. That's why you had to adopt. Or impotent. Or probably both. But either way, they aren't really your kids and thank God the bloodline stops with you. You are a dick and one day when they are trolling these sites trying to make some sense of their lives, older adoptees like me will make sure they know it's Ok to hate a moron like you. And if you plan on being a smartarse tool like you are, learn to spell, would you? You're making a goose of yourself. Good night. Off to kiss my biological children goodnight. I hear there are plenty of good books on male dysfunction around. Perhaps you might be better served spending time reading them. You sure as hell serve no purpose here. Those poor kids .... OMG, I so know how they feel. And they hate you. You will lose them. Take that from someone who has walked in their shoes. That would make you a loser. I'll just repeat that. Loser!!
Thank you Debbie for providing a brilliant example of the adoption reform
ReplyDeleteMovement. Profane and idiotic all at once. ...and this is why legislation is so easy to pass. I merely need show Debbie.
One a side note: may I use your post in another blog?
Thanks,
Powerdad
I notice you haven't actually answered any of the points that others (including me) have raised.
DeleteAre you going to, or are you just going to pretend that the more serious stuff doesn't exist, as you seem to be doing atm?
Um, what does "I merely need show Debbie" mean? Again, get some grammar lessons. I'm certainly not idiotic. Feel free to elaborate but please write English so I can understand it. Put a photo up. I'll bet you are as ugly as you are stupid.
ReplyDeleteAnd I have no idea what legislation you are crapping on about. I'm just telling you the truth as someone separated from her family of origin. Your kids hate your guts for what you say about their mother. How dumb can someone be?
You would have to be without a doubt the biggest waste of space I have ever come across on the net. A total loser. A loser who had to buy kids and makes himself feel bigger by boasting about it. Clearly a man with a little dick.
I would hardly call us a "secret club", at least not since the dawning of the internet. Relinquishment was a very isolating experience,and though you mock us, coming together has been extremely validating. Why this confronts you, beyond the shallow obvious, is quite con fuddling.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to think that since you seem to have JUST found this yet unheard of group of women, that you haven't been around the adoption community for too too long. As I said, the silent birthmother is really no more. I will even wager to guess that you displayed the typical shock and awe that people do when they first encounter people that have the complete opposite view of something that you hold dear, that shapes so much of who you are.I will be kind and chalk up your angry and pathetic response to that.
For I know how very wrong you are in just about every single way.
I'd love for you to tear apart my story:
ReplyDeleteWhen I first heard that I was pregnant I was devastated by the news but by the time I was three months along, in the summer of 1979, I was happily pregnant and twenty years old. I was bonding with my daughter (in utero) more and more as the days pressed on. When I told my parents that I was pregnant (unmarried and no longer in relationship with the father) they told me the only loving thing to do for my unborn daughter was to place her for adoption. Huh? Loving by abandonment? They were wrong, but my mother was convinced she was correct. I don't think she meant me or my daughter any harm. The only reason we were separated is because I listened to my family and society at large. They told me that adoption was the best thing for her just because I was unmarried and not yet established. Within eight years my daughter's parents divorced and she was raised by a single woman.
You say, "Really, in 1980 you had no choice?". The truth is things were starting to change and I did think I had a choice. I thought I made a choice. But when everyone you love pounds into you that IF you love your daughter, you will CHOOSE adoption, and if you do not, you are being SELFISH. Well then you make what you think is the loving, selfless choice.
I spent the next umpteen years living in a traumatized state not realizing that being separated from my first born was at work. When my daughter made contact with me three years ago I started, for the first time, to deal with the loss of raising my daughter. The grief was all encompassing and crippling. Facebook, blogs, and an email list-serve of other mothers in reunion kept me afloat. The thousands of hours of reading about adoption and the effects on mothers and the children they relinquish has made me realize how barbaric the practice is. Of course if a mother is a danger to her child or if she just doesn't WANT to parent, and no extended family will step in, adoption is needed for the child. If there was one thing I could change in my life it would be to never have listed to the nonsense and to have never allowed others to raise my daughter. I was a loving, maternal, happy woman and my daughter deserved to have her mother raise her.
I'll tear your story apart using your own words, even if twattydad won't.
Delete{quote}
You say, "Really, in 1980 you had no choice?". The truth is things were starting to change and I did think I had a choice. I thought I made a choice. But when everyone you love pounds into you that IF you love your daughter, you will CHOOSE adoption, and if you do not, you are being SELFISH. Well then you make what you think is the loving, selfless choice.
{/quote}
So yes, you DID "make a choice" in which YOU CHOSE to ABANDON your own kid. You just said it yourself, so's how the frak you think you can be supporting the moms who actually did NOT get a choice in the matter by pretending to yourself that YOU did not make a choice I don't know, but that's what you're doing.
As twattydad pointed out, actually.
I'd love to have you tear apart my story:
ReplyDeleteWhen I first heard that I was pregnant I was devastated by the news but by the time I was three months along, in the summer of 1979, I was happily pregnant and twenty years old. I was bonding with my daughter (in utero) more and more as the days pressed on. When I told my parents that I was pregnant (unmarried and no longer in relationship with the father) they told me the only loving thing to do for my unborn daughter was to place her for adoption. Huh? Loving by abandonment? They were wrong, but my mother was convinced she was correct. I don't think she meant me or my daughter any harm. The only reason we were separated is because I listened to my family and society at large. They told me that adoption was the best thing for her just because I was unmarried and not yet established. Within eight years my daughter's parents divorced and she was raised by a single woman.
You say, "Really, in 1980 you had no choice?". The truth is things were starting to change and I did think I had a choice. I thought I made a choice. But when everyone you love pounds into you that IF you love your daughter, you will CHOOSE adoption, and if you do not, you are being SELFISH. Well then you make what you think is the loving, selfless choice.
I spent the next umpteen years living in a traumatized state not realizing that being separated from my first born was at work. When my daughter made contact with me three years ago I started, for the first time, to deal with the loss of raising my daughter. The grief was all encompassing and crippling. Facebook, blogs, and an email list-serve of other mothers in reunion kept me afloat. The thousands of hours of reading about adoption and the effects on mothers and the children they relinquish has made me realize how barbaric the practice is. Of course if a mother is a danger to her child or if she just doesn't WANT to parent, and no extended family will step in, adoption is needed for the child. If there was one thing I could change in my life it would be to never have listed to the nonsense and to have never allowed others to raise my daughter. I was a loving, maternal, happy woman and my daughter deserved to have her mother raise her.
So NOW you get manners in asking if you can use Debbie's post on your blog? Lol..should I have asked if you minded if I wrote you a letter on my blog regarding your post? Because I did.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling is, anyone who can act as callous and cruel as you can doesn't deserve my kindness.
Did someone ask for your kindness : )
DeleteLol...if they did, it surely wouldn't be bestowed on an asshat like yourself.
DeleteSorry, 'dopto-dad, but Debbie's right. Unless your borrowed kids are absolute morons, they will eventually develop independent, rational thinking skills and they will hate you for your callous attitude. Need a few hundred thousand examples of this for reassurance? Check any adoptee forum.
ReplyDelete3.4. The forced adoptions fall under more of a racial and apartied context, so, yes I do.
ReplyDelete3. Actually, you are thinking of the apology for the stolen generation. This apology is for ALL women who felt that they were forced to relinquish their babies between the 50s-80s.
JJ, valid correction.
DeleteWes,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be under a colossal miscomprehension that all children lost to adoption were adopted due to mothers who were, in your own crude words, “fuck-ups”.
This is simply untrue. And it remains untrue regardless of what you choose to believe. Your venomous attacks on me and mothers like me through my blog and now this post is simply unfounded, untrue and ignorant. You offer no evidence to back up your claims and yet I have a mammoth pile of court papers/documents to prove what I say.
You also like to dictate to mothers their stories. Pray tell, who are you to know all stories and fabricate lies? Why do you feel the need to stoop to such a gutter level as to lash out and viciously attack women who are mothers and also other adoptees just because we do not ‘toe your line’? You claim here that we are not open to discussion or conversation unless we completely agree with you yet that simply is not true and again you base those claims on your own actions. I did not seek you out, nor did I even know of your existence until you disgraced yourself by attacking other people (who happen to be a mix of mothers, adult adoptees and adoptive parents) on my blog.
As it says on my own blog, I am happy to enter into civil discussion however when you refer to me and others as a “fuck-up”, then I feel you are incapable of entering any real decent discussion and thus have no time for you and your shallow antics.
Your knowledge of adoption is so very limited and you fight against adoption reform. That in itself is, quite frankly, the stupidest thing I have ever read. Why would you be against anything that seeks to improve a dysfunctional system for the sake of children? To me that immediately proves you do not care about the children involved in adoption but are in this for your own sake. If you did care at all about the children you claim to love, then you would be their and our, biggest ally – not declaring yourself as “the face of your enemy”. How do you expect to get anywhere with that sort of language and attack?
If you took the time to read any of the adoptees’ comments on my blog whilst you were busy trying to dictate my and our stories, you may have noticed a comment regarding a movement by adoptive fathers who are seeking to help adopted children – not hinder them. Perhaps you should go back and read that comment and take the time to read the books mentioned.
If after all this you still want to carry on your merry way attacking people you have never met without any knowledge of what you are talking about, and creating a shallow movement that has no substantiality to it then please do so in your time and in your blog. I will continue to fight the bigotry and hatred I see spewed forth by persons as yourself regardless and at the end of the day, if you are unable to address me with respect and dignity, then I will simply delete your comments so no one else has to deal with them.
Yours truly,
A mother of adoption loss who was proved fit to raise her child and only lost her through shady and corrupt dealings.